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March 08, 2004

Survivor All-Stars

By the way, I have watched last week's Survivor. Soon I'll write up my notes. But feel free to post your own comments anytime.

Warning: There may be spoilers in comments.

Posted by jghiii at March 8, 2004 12:16 PM
Posted by: beth on March 8, 2004 12:22 PM

I'm just going to say for now, that I'm appalled at how lightly everyone (mostly men)seem to be taking what happened.

Posted by: RickF on March 8, 2004 04:12 PM

Hawk And Hatch: Getting Past It
March 5, 2004

A contestant on the CBS reality TV show "Survivor" stunned a national television audience Thursday night by alleging that she was "sexually violated" by another player.

Sue Hawk, a member of "Survivor: All-Stars" Chapera tribe, suddenly quit the game, charging that she had been touched in a sexually inappropriate way by former "Survivor" champ and recent cast-off Richard Hatch - who liked to play the game naked.

For the second time this season, there was no tribal council on "Survivor: All-Stars." The tough-talking Sue decided she had enough after a run-in with Hatch. The Early Show co-anchor Harry Smith interviewed Sue and Richard Friday.

The tribes met last week for a balance-beam obstacle course challenge, during which members from both tribes ran across narrow wooden planks set up several feet above the ground. Refereed by host Jeff Probst, the challenge featured showdowns in which each contestant tried to knock the other off if two members met on the same beam.

When Hawk and Hatch -- who was voted out of the game last week -- met face-to-face on the beam, Hatch stepped toward Hawk so their bodies touched and said, "You want some of this?" Hawk protested, but pushed past him, and Probst offered a mild rebuke.

On Thursday night’s episode, Hawk was visibly upset and crying at the Chapera camp as she recalled the incident, her anger building and finally culminating in an outpouring of rage when the tribes assembled for a routine reward challenge.

"I was sexually violated, humiliated, dehumanized and totally spent," she said, unleashing a torrent of angry words at Probst.

She announced she was quitting the game: "There's no way I can continue with my emotions pushed to the ground that much."

At another point, she added: "If he (Hatch) had just walked by me and never touched me, I'd have been fine. But he didn't."

Probst immediately called for a boat that took Hawk from the scene of the game in Panama.

On The Early Show, co-anchor Smith said that, as a viewer, the incident, to him, "seemed like a momentary confrontation. Jeff said, 'Hey, there's no place for that.' It happened in two seconds. You got back to the camp. And what started going through your mind?"

Hawk responded, "That evening, when I had time to be by myself, I just kept reliving the incident. It just kept eating into me more and more like a cancer."

Does she still feel that way?

"It's been a long time since that. And me and Richard have had a chance to sit down and hash it out and talk about the incident. And we both have different perspectives on it," Hawk explained. "But we have come to terms with it and agreed to move forward and past it.

"Of course," she added, "the viewing audience won't, because it was just, like, last night."

Smith asked her if there was anything she wanted to say to Hatch.

"Just, you know, I can understand your feelings, that you like to be naked, you're not uncomfortable with it," Hawk told Hatch. "But sometimes you need to take in other people's perspectives on what's going on with you."

Smith pointed out that Hawk was much calmer on Friday's Early Show than she appeared on Thursday night's episode of "Survivor: All-Stars."

"That was in the moment, though," Hawk said. "That was, like, fresh off the plate. That was when it was still hot…You know, I'm an adult. You have to work through things like that in life. I mean, you can't shut them out at the moment. But you grow from them. You learn from them."

Smith asked her if she was tired and hungry, and if perhaps physical deprivation contributed to her emotional response. But Hawk said it did not.

"I wasn't thirsty or hungry," she explained. "We had a lot of food there… I was in really good shape physically and mentally. I wasn't thinking about home and I wasn't thinking about food. It was actually easier this time around."

She told Smith, "Feeling Richard naked next to you is not a good feeling. That's all… You know, I don't want to brush up against naked people."

As for Hatch, he said, "We have a perspective of Sue Hawk as, you know, super tough… And I learned something: You know, she's a sensitive person. And afterwards, it really, really, got to her. It just started to really, really, get to her. It was emotional."

Hatch and Hawk knew each other; they had played "Survivor" together in its first season, and Hatch had been naked all through the first show. He was naked again, all through "Survivor: All-Stars." The difference, though, said Hawk, is that "he kept his distance, always."

After the incident on the island, Hatch and Hawk did have a chance to talk. And what did Hawk express to Hatch at the time?

"That I did not appreciate what I felt was an intentional move against me with his private area that upset me so much, that it was uncalled for and it bothered me."

And what did Hatch express to Hawk?

"I got to say to her that I didn't appreciate what, from my perspective, was her kind of taunting me… From my perspective. I realize that she doesn't see it that way… Sue and I have worked it out. You know, we see it from two different perspectives. It's not about her apologizing to me or, from my perspective, about my apologizing to her… I'm so sorry that she feels this way. I'm so sorry that it's been so emotional for her. I do feel for her very, very much."

Hawk said she has no intention of bringing lawsuits against Hatch, or "Survivor" producer Mark Burnett, or CBS.

"I did consider, like, a lawsuit when it first occurred," she explained "and I decided I needed not to do something on that move, because that's emotionally draining also. And I decided to move forward, and CBS has been real nice about helping to deal with the situation."

So, Smith concluded, the waters are not exactly tranquil, but there is some

"Yeah, you can drive a boat on it," replied Hawk.

On Thursday night's "Survivor: All-Stars," both tribes were shocked by Hawk's sudden departure, but continued with the game.

Some of Hawk's tribe mates reacted to her departure with glee. Bursting into a song and dance, flapping his arms and stomping his feet in a jerky chicken strut, contestant Tom Buchanan, who made no secret of his dislike for Hawk, honked out a celebratory chorus of "Ding dong, the witch is dead."

On Friday's The Early Show, Hawk said, "Tom did that dance all the time for TV. I'm glad to see he finally got it on. It probably was good because it gave him a chance to finish the bottle of whiskey that he had
been getting the shakes over... Yeah, he definitely loves that stuff. Yeah, that's up on his priority list."

Does Hawk feel she got enough support from her tribe when she was going through her turmoil?

"No," she replied. "In a situation like that, those people, you don't expect
support from them. You really don't ask for it, because of the game... It's not a real situation, you know. So you are on your own."

Hawk is the second "Survivor" to leave the game voluntarily this season. Former champion Jenna Morasca quit the show to be with her cancer-stricken mother.

Posted by: Jo Ann on March 8, 2004 04:25 PM

Here, here, Beth! I agree; I was shocked at their nonchalant attitude. And even Kathy. She was being very callous and insensitive in her private moment to the camera--which she sure as heck wouldn't say to Sue's face!

When ya think about it, what is really up with allowing Richard to be naked all the time anyway? Especially during the competitions. I know it's a game with a million dollars at stake and they can do anything they want except abuse another person. I don't know their legal wording, but I know they can't hit or be abusive, etc. So, when is the line drawn on something like that? If someone naked under a trench coat were to open up the coat and uninvitingly rub up against someone in a public place, they would definitely be arrested. So, why does Survivor let it happen? I know Sue could have sued and is choosing not to, but I just mean that it is odd to me that Survivor wasn't more proactive on preventing something like that from happening. There are reasons why public nudity is not legal! Pretty weird stuff...

By the way, Jack, Sherman and I think Beth too, all guessed right! I wasn't so convinced that Sue's screaming last week was related to that incident, but you all guessed it was! Good job... you win the prize! What, was there a prize? Oh, I guess not, darn.

Posted by: Jo Ann on March 8, 2004 04:41 PM

I just read the article Rick posted which reminded me about Tom's dance. Oh yeah, that stupid dance! That was incredibly insensitive! Sue may be a bit whacky, but they acted so amazingly jerky after she cried her heart out for an entire day and then divulged everything to Jeff. I think finger-waving Alicia was the only one who understood Sue and treated the situation with any sense of proper decorum.

Posted by: beth on March 8, 2004 07:20 PM

Don't get me started on this...I have heard if they strike another person they are immediately disqualified, why wasnt that the case here...cause it was sexual and against a woman, thats why. They need to do way more than say "Does anyone want to talk about what happened". I used to really enjoy this show, but I am very disappointed in their (the producers) attitude toward this whole thing. I'm just going to say this...any woman who has ever been in a crowded subway train and had some jerk get to close on purpose can certainly imagine what Sue was feeling, dont get me wrong I dont like Sue at all, but she didnt deserve this, no woman deserves to be molested on national TV. I hope there is some new clause in the next Survivor contract that states no intentional nudity during challenges. Cause this was intentional...Richard started out this challenge with his pants on, til he realized the potential for intimidation.

Posted by: Jo Ann on March 8, 2004 10:00 PM

You go, Beth! Not to get too "Thelma and Louise" here, but Beth is right and so am I. :-)

There's a lot of stuff with regard to this whole scenario because there are double standards and perceptions about sexual harrassment in our society that are wrong.

Beth makes a good point about the crowded subway; unfortunately, any woman who's been in one on a regular basis understands that example! And every woman can come up with her own stories that relate to Sue's scenario with Richard. All women know how society disregards them as "boys will be boys", etc.

It is wrong for Survivor to allow Richard to be naked during the competitions. As Beth mentioned, Richard did start out with his shorts on in that last competition! You could see that he assessed the situation and saw the possibility of combat and knew if he was naked it would give him an advantage, as the others would try to stay clear of him. Not surprising for Richard, but that is exactly the situation the producers should not allow!

It's one thing for Richard to walk around naked at camp as an intimidation factor--debatable as that is--but to allow him to be naked during competitions where the other contestants may have to come in close proximity to him in order to have a chance at winning is just plain wrong.

I wasn't rooting for Sue either, but she was just trying to play the game and get past him and he did thrust himself on her. They wouldn't allow a punch, so why didn't they disqualify Richard for doing that to Sue?

Talking about double standards... remember Survivor Amazon with Jenna M. and Heidi stripping for peanut butter and chocolate? Remember the uproar about how everyone was so shocked and what kind of women they must be? They did it for two seconds because they were hungry. Richard did it for every episode of two different Survivors to intimidate his fellow contestants to win a million dollars. Don't get me started...

Posted by: Jo Ann on March 9, 2004 03:54 PM

Hey Jack - Where are your Survivor notes?!! Hurry, hurry, we're almost to next week's episode.

Posted by: sherman on March 9, 2004 08:27 PM

Hey Beth:

I understand your frustration and anger. The rules are clearly stacked.

As I continue my work in Social Welfare, I learn more and more about how people have stupid assumptions and just don't understand the complexity and illogic of how the mind deals with adversity.

It's not surprising that Sue would have a "delayed" reaction. It's typical for someone to be the subject of an unwanted touch/approach/assault and not immediately react. It's a combo of shock and embarassment and a compulsion to be good and not cause trouble. That Sue didn't get upset until later is very understandable. And the guys' reactions -- unfortunately I think that is colored by the fact that Sue was not well liked. They focused more on her departure than her pain, which is unfortunate but also very human.

Sexual assault is a horrible thing and does really bad shit to the head. I'm dealing with a male student right now who was molested as a kid by an older cousin. I'm the first person he's told, and while there is relief for him in finally telling, there is also much confusion. He's straight and has a gf and now that he's bringing up all this stuff he's repressed for a while, he has lost his interest in sex. The gf is not taking it well -- she feels it's unfair that he doesn't want to be with her. She doesn't understand that for him right now, a certain unintened touch during sex can bring back some very bad memories.

People are dumb and clueless sometimes Beth.

Posted by: beth on March 9, 2004 09:32 PM

I agree, she didnt react right away cause she was embarassed and maybe didnt want to appear weak by letting on how much it bothered her...I have to say I am really disappointed in Rupert, who counsels troubled teens, had no sympathy for her saying basically she should have reacted at the time...ironically if she had shoved Richard off the beam, which I would have done, she would have been disqualified.

Posted by: beth on March 9, 2004 09:36 PM

Thanks Sherm for always being such a supportive friend. On the "lighter" side of last weeks Survivor...Im not liking Colby (Capt America) at all this time around, and that makes me upset as well...I liked, liking him, I enjoyed thinking what a great guy he he's being condescending and the way he talked down to Shi Ann was very unappealing. I dont remember that he was so arrogant in Australia or was I just blinded by his good looks and charm the first time. And Boston Rob is really getting on my nerves..."I'll let Rupert feed me till I decide its time for him to go" . Give me a break...the shelters built its time for him to go.

Posted by: sherman on March 9, 2004 11:13 PM

Oh yeah, Rupert. Shoulda remembered that. I had the same reaction when I saw his footage and saw how dismissive he was about Sue's situation. I had the same reaction -- a counselor for troubled youth should know better. I wonder if the youths he works with are just male.

Here's Dalton Ross's stuff. (I decided to be upfront and admit to stealing this copywrited material since what the hell could he sue Jack for? The frog?) Ross has an intersting and healthy take on the issue:

  Entertainment Weekly
TUESDAY, March 9, 2004

 Survivor: All-Stars
Quitting Time
 Another Survivor walks off the show -- We'll probably never know what really happened, but all we need to know is that Sue felt sexually harassed, says Dalton Ross

RUB DOWN Sue claims that Richard Hatch inappropriately rubbed against her
I've been doing these weekly ''Survivor'' updates for a few years now. They're fun. I enjoy them. And living in a fantasy world (where Kajagoogoo is always blaring and the Milwaukee's Best flows freely) conveniently allows me to believe that a few people out there actually look forward to the damn things.
But you know what? I quit. I don't know why, but suddenly I am filled with an overwhelming desire to… well, quit. It just seems like the thing to do these days. Everybody's doing it! I swear, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up listed as ''In'' on nex week's Shaw Report. (Jessica, you need to hit this one while it's hot, baby!)
Seriously, though, what has happened to poor Mark Burnett? He puts people through the most hellish living conditions imaginable for six and a half seasons, and no one leaves on their own free will (well, Shawna tried to in ''The Amazon'' but her teammates refused to vote her out, which was pretty damn amusing in its own right).
But ever since about halfway through season 7, people are just BEGGING to leave. First Osten (pathetic and inexcusable), then Jenna (never should have come in the first place, as her best buddy Heidi even just said on ''The Early Show''), and now Sue Hawk, who left after she couldn't emotionally recover after having Richard rub his naked genitalia against her. (Can you blame her?)
Okay, this is a touchy one -- no pun intended. Like with Jenna, I'm sure there are many varying opinions about how Sue handled the situation. It's really hard for me to take much of a stance for several reasons.
(1) We couldn't see what really happened. Sure, the cameras showed a naked Richard move next to Sue, but then it cut away before you could see the alleged rubbing that took place. (2) I'm not a woman. As a guy, I don't know what it's like to be violated in this way, and I can't pretend to. (3) I'm not Sue. Even a situation like this is likely to be handled by different women in very different ways. To some, it may not have been a huge deal. To others, it would be.
Amber had a valid point when she talked about how everything gets magnified being out in that environment. (In fact, I think it's the first thing Amber's ever said that I actually paid attention to.) When you're hot, hungry, and constantly worried about who's trying to backstab you, it wears and tears you down. That's what happened to Jenna. And that's what may have happened to Sue as well.
The point is, to Sue, it WAS a big deal. And that's all that really matters. Which brings us to the more debatable point, which is looking at the reactions of the other players in the game. If you ask me, the guys of Chapera came off looking pretty damn bad.
Look, Tom definitely had a point when he said Sue is all about Sue. He's right. She is. But that doesn't mean you go and do a celebratory dance after the woman is emotionally crushed (and possibly sexually assaulted). I mean, jeez! And Rob and Rupert didn't come off much better. At least they had the courtesy to change the lyrics from ''the witch is dead'' to ''the witch is GONE.'' Now, THAT'S class, people.
If you're like me, you knew something funky was going on with this episode when the clock struck 8:30 ET and there had still not been any notice of a reward challenge. (''Tree mail! Where's the damn tree mail?!?'') That's when I figured Sue was gonna go bye-bye. Her departure was certainly emotional, and if I were the producer I would have just scrapped the whole challenge after that. I mean how anticlimactic was that thing?
The only funny part about it was watching Probst give out the game instructions while looking like he had just peed his pants. (I guess those quick-dry shorts didn't dry off as quick as he hoped after escorting Sue to her boat. Hey, at least he HAD pants on.)
The only other valuable aspect to having the challenge was having Mogo Mogo win so we could hear all about how Ethan wanted to rub his face in meat. Nice image. Actually, considering the image that led to Sue's quitting, that would be a step in the right direction. Maybe I'll stick this gig out a little longer after all.

Posted by: Jo Ann on March 10, 2004 06:31 AM

More good points on all this from Sherm, Beth and Dalton.

And Rupert counsels troubled teens--that's right! I remember thinking during the episode that maybe he'd step up to the plate and thought it was odd that he wasn't supporting her. But then, with all the other weirdness like Kathy's comments and Big Tom's dance, I didn't focus on it again.

I suppose because this is a game with high stakes, one could debate that they reacted differently than in the "real world" and possibly thought Sue might have been manipulating the situation. Although, some support would not have hurt anyone's position in their tribe. Of course, Survivor is "a show" that is heavily edited, so we don't know what happened that they didn't show us. But we do know what we did see after she left the show. And there is no excuse for their behavior in rejoicing that Sue quit, or making judging comments, considering the circumstances in which she left! Ugh.

Regarding Colby... yah, he's not edited as well this time! He really came across as a jerk in that chat with Shii Ann. I really like her... "Right Colby, blah, blah, blah, blah"!! He's lookin' pretty insecure right now. Remember how he didn't get to the final two last time on his smarts, he just kept winning the challenges so they couldn't vote him out. (And then he gave away his chance at the mill by picking Tina.) Last time, he was always in the catbird seat, so he didn't have these kind of intimidation chats. I think he looks like he's feeling a bit nervous right about now.

Hey, Ethan's still out there, walkin' around with his shirt off. :-)

Posted by: beth on March 10, 2004 07:49 AM

You know I like that Dalton Ross, he has some good points....but if I recall Shawna wanted to be voted off, but I don't think it occurred to her at that time she could quit...we can thank Osten the wimp for that. Before Osten quit it didn't occur to anyone they could quit. Remember Mitchell who said at one point that he really thought the cameramen fed them off camera. He found out he was wrong but didn't quit. I just hope that Mark comes up with a rule regarding nudity in challenges, cause if there is one thing we've seen in 7 Survivors, is that the new survivors copy from the old else did Johnny the Moron come up with the idea of a dead grandma...he saw the sympathy Jenna got when she talked about her mother with cancer...even Christy, who hated Jenna, felt bad for Jenna. We don't want to see this happen again.

Posted by: beth on March 11, 2004 11:09 AM

So what happened to the notes for last week's show.

Posted by: sherman on March 11, 2004 12:28 PM

Hey -- Leave Jack alone. He's pretty busy, what with his demanding job and his girlfriend and...oh, that's right.


Posted by: beth on March 11, 2004 01:24 PM

I'll say it leave my big brother alone.

Posted by: sherman on March 11, 2004 01:56 PM

Leave Jack alone?
You want me to leave Jack alone?

Isn't bad enough that the entire female population is leaving him alone. Don't you think he deserves some attention?

Posted by: beth on March 11, 2004 02:02 PM

You are just too funny. I'm falling on the floor laughing...hahahaha

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